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#91
Close reading / Re: A Systemic Approach to Sys...
Last post by droqen - November 22, 2023, 08:41:34 AM
Quote15:20

The meaning can never be found in the parts. . . .
You have to look the next level up, and the next level up beyond that.
#92
Close reading / Re: A Systemic Approach to Sys...
Last post by droqen - November 22, 2023, 08:40:58 AM
Quote13:11

'A thing-ness'
John Holland . . . his short definition of emergence was that when you have something where it's easier to define a thing at its higher level rather than at its constituent parts, that's where you have an emergent property

Interesting lens to think about this. Sellers continues to speak about how 'the face does not exist' in an illusion of a face visible in flowers and a butterfly..
I maintain the question, what then is existence? Not in the case of the face illusion, but in the glider, the triangle, and so on. Sellers suggests that these non-things have thing-ness, but we are all non-things with thing-ness. I'll be very disappointed if he doesn't get there by the end of this talk.
#93
Close reading / Re: A Systemic Approach to Sys...
Last post by droqen - November 22, 2023, 08:31:20 AM
Quote7:45

You could have speed = 6, and hit points = 20
In reality we have the same organization [parts and relationships. how things are connected creates the system], but there's no bottom as far as we can tell.
#94
Close reading / Re: A Systemic Approach to Sys...
Last post by droqen - November 22, 2023, 08:29:12 AM
He gets into whether a glider in the game of life is 'a thing', earlier says the Kanizsa triangle is not 'a thing'. Why is it not 'a thing'? "We experience it as a thing," he says of the glider. Why is it not 'a thing'?
#95
Close reading / Re: A Systemic Approach to Sys...
Last post by droqen - November 22, 2023, 08:27:57 AM
Wow, wonderful little example of people failing to do systems thinking, and actually how the 'world-as-machine' thinking I mention above is reductive and fails to catch the whole. This is exactly what Christopher Alexander is talking about with the 20th-century mechanistic viewpoint.

Quote5:11

Asking people what do they see in this picture . . . most people, particularly in the west, say "there's three big fish, some plants" . . . calling out the little bits, not the relationships between them . . . it's a little more common in Asia people say "this is an aquarium, this is an undersea scene," talking about the relationships between things . . . people [in Japan are] most likely to see this as an overall scene . . . a sort of gestalt in psychological terms
#96
Close reading / Re: A Systemic Approach to Sys...
Last post by droqen - November 22, 2023, 08:17:11 AM
Quote1:02
Plato to Galileo: "a whole organized of parts" [definition of a system]
Newton: "De mundi systemate" [The system of the world] (1687)

Wild. I did not realize that the title of The Idea of the World was constructed in the same fashion as... possibly in reference to... a different older book which appears to be the very root of 'world-as-machine' thinking. Fascinating.
#97
Close reading / Re: A Systemic Approach to Sys...
Last post by droqen - November 22, 2023, 08:14:51 AM
AWW NOBVODY LAUGHED AT HIS JOKE. and he goes on.
what a terrible crowd! laugh at mike's joke, crowd! oh well.

edit:: Oh maybe it's just the way he's mic'd up. I hope it was a good crowd!
#98
Close reading / A Systemic Approach to Systemi...
Last post by droqen - November 22, 2023, 08:14:34 AM
#99
Reviews & reflections / Re: Slay the Princess (spoiler...
Last post by droqen - November 18, 2023, 12:13:25 PM
QuoteThe vessels are shaped by memories of you, but their impulses are drawn to the edge of The Long Quiet. To them you are a gate to something more, and any hurt you've caused them is understood as a fair price for freedom. But they are only thoughts and perspectives. They are not me.

The wounds they've suffered carve texture around my heart. Without them, I would be as I was before.

QuoteThere are contradictions, conflicts in my nature. And there are familiarities that bind everything together.

I'll resist the urge to capture every quote that comes to me through it, but these are the lines, the sorts of lines, that strike me as reflecting upon some deeper thing that I have been reflecting upon, too, for a long time. The plurality of human perspective, the plurality of any person, the plurality of everything of which we are no simple, singular part.
#100
Reviews & reflections / Slay the Princess (spoilers)
Last post by droqen - November 18, 2023, 12:12:14 PM
There are many lines in Slay the Princess that I find remarkably beautiful, in particular ones spoken in the... I don't know what to call it... by the shifting mound beyond the mirror before it becomes itself.