droqen's forum-shaped notebook

First of all I would like to say, KAT DID IT FIRST!!! (https://newforum.droqen.com/index.php?topic=701)
*ahem*
Alright, let's dig in.


[A. Conceal something from the player.
 B. When we know there is something concealed, we are motivated to uncover it. (e.g. (https://newforum.droqen.com/index.php?msg=3751))

 C. Awareness of concealment itself may be concealed. When unaware of concealment we cannot be directly motivated (as above), but awareness of unknown unknowns may stir the curiousity in a different way. ]

"What's behind the door" and "How do I open it"

Brown opens with the locked door, and identifies some nice simple structural questions. It's basic stuff but fundamental!

"Too many mysteries can become overwhelming"

I'm reminded of Brown's quite excellent videos discussing the structure of Zelda games, especially older ones. "Boss Keys."

While the formal element, locked doors, is a universal one, I'm beginning to detect a subtle flavour, an undercurrent. Maybe it's within me more than him.

In any case, this idea of a space and how the player interacts with it, that is, their mental model of your space, is sticking for me.

Oh god it's me and a quote from me from 12 years ago. Upsetting

But, I must face myself with open eyes. What did I have right?

(6:4X)

". . . Starseed Pilgrim is another notable example. . . . What do the different seeds do? How do platforms interact? What do hearts do? How do I break out of this loop? And, most importantly, what is my actual goal? Developer droqen says:"

"I never added clear instructions because... I have no love for those, and I learned that the world became more interesting that way. As it turns out, mystery and wonder are powerful emotions." (7:11)

"But remember. There's a fine line between something being intriguing, and something being confusing. . . . a certain number of players are just going to bounce off and give up. They'll either seek out a guide, or stop playing altogether. . . ."

Ah ha ha ha. OK, I was supposed to be judging myself, but let me judge Mark Brown first. Here he suggests a kind of linear relationship to an unstated quality level... his usage of intriguing versus confusing, these are loaded words. Intriguing is good, confusing is bad. Brown himself mentions his experience with Rain World, and bouncing off it twice...

oh guh fuck there's more droqen
ok i mean Starseed Pilgrim anyway, it's a short video of the part of the game that shows the instructions.

OK, before I move on to judging myself, I'd like to complete this shattered thought:

Brown does eventually get to this point, but there is no line between intriguing and confusing. As a game designer you should be cognizant of what people's experiences are, but as an artist you're not necessarily responsible for making sure they have the "right" experience. I would prefer to reframe this as understanding that mystery challenges the player, and that all challenge comes at a cost -- not to the number of players who pass through your game-as-digestive-system and come out the other side successes or failures, but to each individual player who encounters challenge and is expected to meet it. The player, every single individual player who ever plays your game, will expend effort, will spend part of their life working their way through this challenge that you've placed in front of them, so it is important to wield this weapon with intention. A mystery must do something.

OK. Time to judge myself.

~ backlinked from TAROT (https://newforum.droqen.com/index.php?msg=3734)

Maybe I shouldn't be so busy thinking about how to judge myself. I'm not sure! It seems self-indulgent.
To be generous, I should break down what I'm saying, accept it as though there is something of value there. Be generous to myself: to my past self, open to my idea, however ancient; to my present self, able to accept a new idea that might have value, along with everything else in the video.

Rules
this second section of the video, Rules, talks about mysterious games not telling you their rules. starseed pilgrim was some kind of icon for this type of mystery. can i appreciate that for a moment?

[ A. conveying 'mysterious' in a game, perhaps 'intriguing'
  B. do not clearly describe certain rules or mechanics, or strategies
  C. be aware that not describing rules causes collateral damage - confusion, frustration ]

this isn't totally clear but it is clear enough for now.

- hiding stuff spatially, environmental storytelling. similar to locked door imo, but more broad
- hiding stuff about the narrative, e.g. hiding the answer to a big question

Quoteby concealing information from the player they create questions in the player's mind

very practical yes.

i'm sort of annoyed. not at mark brown specifically, but more broadly at this youtube pattern of starting in pieces, only tying things together later on. like, you could have started with

What Makes a Game Feel Mysterious?
Unanswered Questions
For example:

but instead we get

What Makes a Game Feel Mysterious?
Locked Doors
Enigmas
(etc)
All of those are Unanswered Questions

mm. i don't know. maybe i'm just nitpicking, but i like when i get the answers upfront when it is possible to do so. i'm spoiled by the timeless way of building.

mystery motivates the player to keep going
---
how does the player get answers?

locked door: the player ventures out and finds the key
mysterious landscape: the player goes out and explores
mysterious rulesets: the player pays close attention, experiments, observes, and a little trial and error

brown suggesting we need to go further than let players try things and make their own mistakes! nice. let's go

QuoteKNOWLEDGE

oh no this is metroidbrania talk

again this pattern:

EXAMPLE
EXAMPLE
EXAMPLE
--l ol he said metroidbrania! he said the word!!! i'm so smart!!!!!

anyway, yes, I'm seeing this didactic/engagement strategy appear again, i wonder what's up with that.

UNANSWERED QUESTION
EXAMPLE 1
EXAMPLE 2
EXAMPLE 3
CONNECTING LARGER CONCEPT

i'm kind of impatient. (i will readily admit this to anyone who asks.)
give me the answer right away if you got it, dude.

• QUESTION
• ANSWER
• ADDITIONAL DETAIL
• REPEAT THE ANSWER NOW THAT I HAVE THE DETAIL

... i say this, but i understand it isn't how storytelling works. However. this is not storytelling. mark brown is not taking me on an emotional ride, or at least i wish he wasn't? no, that's not right. i don't think that's what he's trying to do. there's no emotional ride here, just potentially useful information laid out in a way which i find frustrating.

if there is an emotional ride it is the 'feeling of learning' which is pretty gross and annoying, i don't need learning gamified.

anyway, that's not his fault, i'd like to reiterate that i think this is fairly common.

the algorithm is being fed.

"knowledge-based keys"
- force the player to pay close attention ("You can't just stumble onto a key and bumble onto a lock"; the player must be an active participant)
- when locked behind knowledge, the player can use the key at any point in time ("That's a pretty amazing feeling that leads to more personal stories" ... "interesting, sequence-breaking exploits")
- carefully parse the information, or combine different bits of knowledge (knowledge-based gameplay?) ("extra layer of satisafaction . . . "aha, I figured it out!"")

- the reward doesn't matter for makign the mystery satisfying

- repeating the same thing over and over makes a game predictable (the opposite of mystery/wonder? ooh)

- repetition may be necessary, we can offset it with completely unique areas

- establishing a pattern and then breaking it, don't take things for granted?

the path behind you littered with question marks

conceal something from the player
locked door
rules/mechanics of the game
layout of landscape/world
narrative enigma
-> they create a question in the player's mind
the player answers the question themselves via
discovery, exploration, observation, puzzle-solving, or working with others
-> satisfaction of being the one to crack the code and reveal the secret
if we don't let on that there's a puzzle to solve
"true moment of mystery as they realise that there's more to this game than they ever thought possible"

(these were mark brown's own sparknotes)

[ A. Conceal something from the player so that they are aware something is being concealed.

Examples:

- present the player with a locked door. they are aware that "doors can be opened" but they may not be aware of the answer to the questions, "what is behind the door?" and/or "how do i open the door?"

- present the player with a system whose rules are not fully understood. they may be aware that rules are being followed, but not be sure what all of those rules are.

- present the player with a landscape to explore whose nooks and crannies are undiscovered. similar to the locked door. i know how to move around and that exploration is possible, but not the extent of what exists or can exist in the landscape, or (on a smaller scale) what i will find, as in, right around that corner

- present the player with an 'enigma', an unanswered question, possibly in the narrative. this is a topic perhaps better covered by looking into the vast ocean of existing nonfiction on how to write.

  B. The player is motivated to uncover it.

It isn't a necessity that the player be allowed to do things that they are motivated to do, but it's often a good idea! In the above descriptions many player 'actions' or 'activities' are implicit.

Brown's list of common mystery-revealing actions:

- exploration
- observation
- puzzle-solving
- working with others

  There's a third part about the effect of situations where the player is NOT aware that something is concealed, but I won't go further in depth here, it's too large of a topic. ]

notes complete

*
From the comments regarding 'unknown unknown' type mysteries

QuoteBeing left by the dev to over-analyze every sprite, animation, shadow, sound and movement is exciting for a short time, but leaves me feeling very anxious and I cannot relax into the game anymore.