nooo lol jim and i are talking and where is lena!! sorry lena!! looking forward to your voice coming back

starseed pilgrim - crazy ego experience - very strange thing - what's happening is you have two parasocial relationships that merge into a real relationship instantly. it's very weird

oh my god it IS weird. aaaaa

right, more relationship shit... tigsource

Lena - I am picturing that scene from it's always sunny (omg the meme)
me - I think that's the reaction that most people have???
Jim - Here's a pc of software that's 15 years old, it was perfect in year 2, but . . . they have to come up with something [so it's crap, messy]

Lena - choosing libraries . . when was its most recent update? . . And now years and years later, I'm like, wellll, maybe it's just done? It's done?
me - Do you look for how many crusty old users have been using it for 15 years . .
Lena - no data

damn, no data!!!

Jim - topics
me - let's lord
Lena - let's do it

THE FIRST TOPIC IS KILL GAMEPLAY
oh god

Lena and I introduce each other lol! It's great!

Lena Guerrero - "Engineer, make videogames that are multiplayer & focused on human connection." "Support your local farmers market!"  yess support those farmers!!! i need to ask lena about multiplayer games

droqen - i make games, i plug kinopio, omfg kinopio is so good. kinopio

"The only place on the internet where you can hear topics discussed" is an incredible intro, I don't know how I didn't burst out laughing

me - "it's fun linguistically to say as a person . . . i'm going to say . . ."
oh fuck lol yeah i go off on this baby blanket thing
"you create this sort of illusion of omnipotence for the child"
ah right i remember where i'm going
the baby gets this twin idea of the world
1. i'm omnipotent (the child's internal reality)
2. no, the world is real, there are boundaries (the child's external reality)

if we can hold both of them in mind,
not complete omnipotence, not complete reality
both mindsets:
- YOU KNOW YOU ARE THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE, YOU ARE AND ALWAYS WILL BE
and also
- YOU KNOW THAT YOU ARE NOT THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE AND THERE'S LOTS OF STUFF OUTSIDE OF YOUR CONTROL

[..]

me: SO, when someone writes or says, "This is the definition of this thing, and I'm right," . . he's writing from this 'I am at the center of the universe' position, not in a bad way. . . I love slipping back into that space. . When I talk to people about kill gameplay, there's people who disagree with me . . I say something to the tune of "I understand where you're coming from, but you're wrong."

Drew: YOU SAY IT RESPECTFULLY, BUT YOU DON'T PULL THE PUNCH.

me: Saying "You're wrong" and saying "I disagree with you" are essentially the same statement. - on some level I want to give other people permission to access that part of themselves, so when I say "I'm definitely right about this and you're definitely wrong," I want them to say "well I'm definitely right about this and you're definitely wrong," but we're both very respectful of it and . . we just know that we're right about these mutually opposing things.

Drew-
"poetry lies pretty precisely in the intersections of those different [meanings . .] that's beauty and that's meaning"

yeah <3
aw he wants to put a pin in it though

Drew (#1) "you've got to exert effort to get better at something . . why gameplay must die[?] a hollow version of learning[.. something not] useful [..] nutritious"

Drew (#2) "when you get into this kind of conversation, this is what gameplay is and what it's good, you're pretending to be talking about definitions when actually what you're talking about is taste"

Yes absolutely, I agree with that :)

Drew-
" an order of monks . . punished by having to learn a huge amount of purposeless information . . zach barth . . achieving mastery, but about what? "
talking about language, i remember we get stuck on this topic a little bit and i try to defuse it some what?? listening...

droqen
- Terrell is very interested in the process of learning and how people learn things
- so my struggle with gameplay: it is this sort of hollow, empty, aesthetic of learning without all the other parts of learning
- what if we made an object that gave us the aesthetic pleasure of feeling as though we were learning or doing something with purpose
- is it right to create an artifact that produces that sensation in the absence of anything that actually justifies that we're doing anything purposeful

yeah yeah yeah i mean i'm literally the one who said it lol but i'm surprised this coheres, fuck yeah, good job me