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#81
Close reading / Re: A Systemic Approach to Sys...
Last post by droqen - November 22, 2023, 09:07:48 AMQuote29:18
To understand systems, to be able to think in systems, you have to experience them. And nothing else that we know of gives people the ability to experience systems like playing or designing games. So I believe that designing systems from a systemic point of view enables us to see more systems in our daily lives . . . I think that by . . . using systemic thinking in game design, we can make better games, and better people.
- +1000 points for 'see more systems in our daily lives'
- -1 point for 'game systems are the way to do that'
#82
Close reading / Re: A Systemic Approach to Sys...
Last post by droqen - November 22, 2023, 09:05:12 AMLast slide @ 29:16
As a goal, I like the dream that playing systems-games lets people get better at systems-thinking. Seriously, can't we do that with actual systems?
Quote- Systemic understanding is vital beyond games
- Systems must be experienced to be
understood
- Game design is unique
- Enables people to recognize, experience,
understand, and inhabit systems
- Systemic design provides tools for making
better games -- and better people
As a goal, I like the dream that playing systems-games lets people get better at systems-thinking. Seriously, can't we do that with actual systems?
#83
Close reading / Re: A Systemic Approach to Sys...
Last post by droqen - November 22, 2023, 09:03:36 AMI guess player character movement is also a system. I want gem-sized systems. Beautiful small things. Systems like paintings: that you can experience immediately. All at once, as one thing.
#84
Close reading / Re: A Systemic Approach to Sys...
Last post by droqen - November 22, 2023, 09:02:53 AMQuoteSystemic design advantages, full slide (28:50)
- Cohesive, deep system = engaging gameplay
- Emergent effects enable endless gameplay
- Keeps you out of static "content creation" trap
- Game + player system creates more meaning
- More engagement
- Longer play
- More $ €
I don't really like this slide but I can see how you might want to use this as leverage in a company, and I can also get the value many people might see in it -- but it's one of the things that bothers me about games, I don't know if these constructed systems are that interesting to me anymore. Systems thinking, that's beautiful, but systems themselves... I want to go up a level, and another level. There are such beautiful real systems out there, why would I want to spend my time creating and experience fabricated ones, disconnected from the world?
Damn it, I wish I still loved these things.
#85
Close reading / Re: A Systemic Approach to Sys...
Last post by droqen - November 22, 2023, 08:58:36 AMQuote28:20
When you are a designer and you're doing systemic design you are on the backside of a magic trick. . . . Once you understand the system it no longer feels emergent to you, it no longer feels like magic to you, and this is a very difficult place to be, because you'll say "No, this isn't very good at all" until [players?] say "No this is terrific! This is great!" And they, your players can actually see things in it that you don't see, because you're seeing the backside of the magic trick.
#86
Close reading / Re: A Systemic Approach to Sys...
Last post by droqen - November 22, 2023, 08:56:16 AMQuote27:50
It's . . .very difficulty to see what's going on in a system while it's in progress. . . . You can go for a long time where it doesn't really quite gel yet. It requires a lot of iteration and a lot of failure, and you have to be willing to fail at it, and if you're working at a company, your company has to be willing to have the time, and be able to have the time, to let you fail at it until you can make something work.
Hmm, hmm, hmm.
#87
Close reading / Re: A Systemic Approach to Sys...
Last post by droqen - November 22, 2023, 08:50:29 AMParts
- Are the system parts defined? Hierarchy, attributes, state, behaviours
- Can all the parts be implemented?
- Do the parts have methods & reasons to interact with each other to create significant effects? e.g. many attacks that all 'just do damage'
- Are all the parts equivalent and unbalanced? (Beats everything, lead object, etc) - I can't tell if he's saying this is good or not? I think it's bad
Loops
- Simultaneous complexity, not serial or linear complicatedness
- Does the system create a space or path? (Space is good, path is bad)
- Does the player make meaningful decisions?
Wholes
- Is there a cohesive, intentional experience for the player? Supported by the loops and the parts within the loops?
- Does the game have a heart?
- Does it mean anything to the player? There's a tiny spark of meaning when I get the long piece into a hole in Tetris
- Are the system parts defined? Hierarchy, attributes, state, behaviours
- Can all the parts be implemented?
- Do the parts have methods & reasons to interact with each other to create significant effects? e.g. many attacks that all 'just do damage'
- Are all the parts equivalent and unbalanced? (Beats everything, lead object, etc) - I can't tell if he's saying this is good or not? I think it's bad
Loops
- Simultaneous complexity, not serial or linear complicatedness
- Does the system create a space or path? (Space is good, path is bad)
- Does the player make meaningful decisions?
Wholes
- Is there a cohesive, intentional experience for the player? Supported by the loops and the parts within the loops?
- Does the game have a heart?
- Does it mean anything to the player? There's a tiny spark of meaning when I get the long piece into a hole in Tetris
#88
Close reading / Re: A Systemic Approach to Sys...
Last post by droqen - November 22, 2023, 08:48:06 AMQuote21:40
"A systems designer can turn a spreadsheet into a game, and a game into a spreadsheet."
#89
Close reading / Re: A Systemic Approach to Sys...
Last post by droqen - November 22, 2023, 08:43:24 AM #90
Close reading / Re: A Systemic Approach to Sys...
Last post by droqen - November 22, 2023, 08:42:22 AMcalls Candy Crush a fantastic game. hmm ok