SMF - Just Installed!
Started by droqen, May 10, 2022, 07:26:04 PM
QuoteI want to describe to you a kind of game that I like to play, and a kind of game that I want to play.
QuoteI am very interested in the design of these games, the way they facilitate learning through play. I like learning things this way, and I like doing their dances.[..]What is the minimal form of games that can do this?
Quote from: droqLearning to dance
Quote from: droqWhether or not it cares about it, every game has gamefeel.
Quote from: JackFor a long time I, like you, have felt a dissatisfaction once the GAMEFEEL CONTENT of a game is done, and there is nothing more to chew on besides repeating the ROUTINES I have established for myself – often over and over and over again.
Quote from: JackDiscovering the game's systems through GAMFEEL is a very similar process to discovering meaning in a poetic presentation!During the GAMEFEEL CONTENT of a game, there should be enough clues for the player to piece together a model of a system that EXPLAINS the way that the simulated system works (or at least mostly). [..] In HAIKU games, I imagine that the game ends at this point, the moment of mastery, at the peak of the player's engagement and understanding.
Quote from: ZeigfreidBy "reading" do you mean after you play the game and it ends, you reflect on the game you just played? [..] gamefeel and reading are both (I think, and I think Swink thinks) results of being "jacked in" to the cybernetic circuit of game/player. They happen continuously, so I'd say that the player is reading while they are gamefeeling. The reading can continue after the player has put down the controller, but arguably so can gamefeel (nausea, the Tetris effect, etc...)
Quote from: MerAll games ask you to intervene, that's kinda what makes them games, and you could say that all interaction is a form of creativity, in the way you have to come up with solutions to problems. But I'd argue that finding a solution within the tools that the game provide is not the kind of creativity I want to talk about here, but the one where you have to bring up your own ideas into the system.
Quote from: MerIn roleplaying games, you could argue that you can do whatever you like, but you're actually restricted to the situation the GameMaster just described, and you have a Character Sheet that puts you back in the box.
Quote from: MerGames like Dixit give you absolute freedom [..] you can say a single word or even just a sound and it's a perfectly valid entry.
Quote from: MerIn Among Us, that shared setting provides a safe space to create in. First of all, it creates a lot of real interactions: you need to take care of the ship, you encounter other players, you have to actually kill/being murdered. So when you discuss about who the suspect is, you don't have to imagine you were doing something, you were actually doing something when the crime took place.
Quote from: droqI want a game to exmerse me; by contrast to immersing me in its fictional world, I want to be pulled out of it as quickly as possible, so that I can instead focus on the actual details of my experience and the real people around me
Quote from: ZeigfreidEmersion is an antonym of immersion, in particular I think it fits because an "emersion program" (as opposed to an immersion program) is a an activity like a spiritual retreat where you are trying to remove yourself from some obstacles to a deeper understanding of reality
Quote from: Jackthe more I play these games, and the more I understand how they work, the more I am left wanting – wanting for something more than the crystalline perfection of the design. I've learned this system, but now what? I can dance in it, play it like an instrument, and there is certainly a perennial joy to be found in that!
Quote from: ZeigfreidVideogames have a resolution problem: they will never be our musical instruments, languages, or literature. "Videogames" is a hobby with a great deal of depth and room for study, but I think each videogame is more like a hobby with not a lot of depth. [..] You can read the text of FFVII, but I assure you there are more interesting texts in other media.[..]Jack's "but now what?" above addresses this resolution problem. We love these GAMEFEEL games because it can be really interesting to move Mario around the screen gracefully, or to grasp and hopefully master a curious puzzle like Recursed.[..]HAIKU games made me think "ah yes, videogames: [..] don't pretend to be a piano, or a novel, or life itself. Be Videogames. Videogames have a resolution problem (I insist, there is no escaping it). I take Jack's suggestion as a call to work with that constraint rather than against it.
Quote from: droqeach game as not a world or a hobby unto itself, but a single rock skipped across the surface of a great pond.The KNOWING WINK of mokesmoe's I can't carry all these ducks! relies on an acknowledgement of 10,000 hours spent not playing it, but spent playing games.The games I love most are the ones that propelled me forward, that made me think about games-in-general and perhaps life in a novel way, not the ones that folded inward and demanded increasing levels of understanding and mastery.[..] I loved learning to understand how to play a game that I never played again once I finally felt I understood it.
Quote from: MerThe world is not deep. We decide voluntarily to look at it in that way. We decide to give importance to some things and others not, and those we don't know about, is like they don't exist. We invent meanings, goals, interests, reasons [..] learning is a way of caring.[..] I keep on dancing to the same tunes and playing a few games repeatedly. Because they GAMEFEEL good. There's no exploration, just plain visceral pleasure. And that's amazing.[..] you can also be bored by all those things, regardless of their depth. Maybe it's not about running out of things to explore, but of running out of love.
Quote from: JackI think we can give this same amount of care to an individual game.
Quote from: Jackthe piano was designed with a very deep resolution. (Singleplayer) videogames maybe less so. [..] let's not forget about very simple instruments that I think you could say have a 'resolution problem' when compared to piano. Like maybe the recorder? Can you go glitch-hunting with the recorder to find some new techniques of play? Is that breaking through the resolution wall?[..]When digging into all the reasons that we get bored or not with something, it's good to remember that it is also a product of how much we put in, how much we care. And it makes me reconsider: why do I stop caring about jumping around in Mario's world? Is it simply the lack of novelty in its challenges? And if so, why aren't I making up my own challenges? What is stopping me?
Quote from: droqIs speedrunning Game X the same as playing Game X, or is it something different? Using the equipment of Game X to perform a "speedrun."[..]players can be coerced, tricked, manipulated, convinced, and a large part of videogames culture involves actively seeking out the designer's intended way to play.
Quote from: Jackgames always take on some responsibility for what the resolution of the game experience is, and it has a limit. They can't avoid it.[..]many games work like this – with the game being a curious device we operate to drip-feed ourselves some 'non-gamefeel content' which evokes different themes and ideas that we connect with to various degrees.[..]I often can't connect with non-gamefeel content, and I don't have a good understanding of why. In some cases, the curious device is the interesting thing that we are receptive to, and I have a better time connecting with that, and appreciating it as a game that reaches beyond itself[..]It seems to me like there should be a way to bring the non-gamefeel content back into the realm of gamefeel content[..]I want the aesthetic leap of the non-gamefeel content to be a part of the game.
Quote from: MerI remember watching Beyblade anime when I was 11. I'd have killed for a proper Beyblade, but they hadn't arrived in my country yet, so I had to content myself with other, less-cooler tops. It didn't matter, I'd spin those things everywhere, creating my own circuits and challenges. A year later, I could finally get some true Beyblades. And... I couldn't play like that anymore. There is a point in your life when lifting a toy-plane and playing pretend just stops being fun, but we don't realize it when it happens.[..]Maybe as adults we need... validation? Feeling useful? Is this also capitalism's fault?